Hyundai Kona Electric

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GRA said:
An optical illusion I guess, or just not having the two vehicles together to compare. If you saw the Niro indoors rather than outdoors, that might do it.

Murano, 192"L x 75" W x 67" H
Niro, 172" L x 71" W x 60" H
I stand corrected. Thanks!
 
iPlug said:
That’s a great combo, and the extra EV range of the LR and supercharging network should make travels pretty smooth. I would go that way if I weren’t so cheap :D

Using the cost opportunity savings for other eco tech upgrades like decarbonizing our home.
Decarbonizing the home is an excellent use of funds. I'm quite pleased though with my $27k out of pocket to swap out my two ICE cars for two EVs that cover all our driving needs. Between fuel savings from running both cars off our PV and the value of updating one of the cars to a 2018, my upgrade cost is around $8k over the next 10 - 15 years. I consider it money VERY well spent to avoid fossil fuel and to enjoy and support Tesla.
 
cwerdna said:
Is this more Hyundai vaporware? Not sure what's going on w/Hyundai EVs in the US (supply problem?) but per https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, they sold a whopping 49 Ioniqs in the US in Jan 2018 and 3 in Feb. For 2017, it was 432 in total.

I've seen maybe 1 or 2 Ioniq EVs in the wild (might be the same one). The driver at free public L2 charging told me they had to go to So Cal to get it. I asked Hyundai reps at the SJ Auto Show in Jan 2018 and IIRC, they didn't know what was up.
Hyundai Denies Most Of U.S. Access To Upcoming Kona Electric
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-limited-u-s-availability/

So, within CA and the other states later, I wonder if it'll be like the Ioniq BEV (So Cal only, shipping in meager quantities)? If so, this would be exactly why I've been ignoring the Kona EV buzz and highly skeptical for the US market.
 
cwerdna said:
cwerdna said:
Is this more Hyundai vaporware? Not sure what's going on w/Hyundai EVs in the US (supply problem?) but per https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, they sold a whopping 49 Ioniqs in the US in Jan 2018 and 3 in Feb. For 2017, it was 432 in total.

I've seen maybe 1 or 2 Ioniq EVs in the wild (might be the same one). The driver at free public L2 charging told me they had to go to So Cal to get it. I asked Hyundai reps at the SJ Auto Show in Jan 2018 and IIRC, they didn't know what was up.
Hyundai Denies Most Of U.S. Access To Upcoming Kona Electric
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-limited-u-s-availability/

So, within CA and the other states later, I wonder if it'll be like the Ioniq BEV (So Cal only, shipping in meager quantities)? If so, this would be exactly why I've been ignoring the Kona EV buzz and highly skeptical for the US market.
I suggested in another thread that it would be smart for Hyundai and Kia to only sell the minimum number of PEVs until next April, when GM's fed. tax credit will drop to 50% (assuming they hit 200k in Nov. or Dec.). Why burn through your credits when you'll have a huge competitive price advantage in just a few months?
 
Via GCR, another very positive review:
2019 Hyundai Kona Electric: first drive of affordable 258-mile crossover
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...-first-drive-of-affordable-258-mile-crossover

Hyundai has done some very good things with the regen controls. I'm virtually certain the Kona is too short for me to sleep in so will be looking at the Niro BEV when it arrives, but this really does look like serious competition for the Bolt, and gets us 20 miles closer to an affordable 300+ mile BEV.

Slightly less but still quite positive review via IEVS:
2019 Hyundai Kona Electric First Drive: The New Normal
https://insideevs.com/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-first-drive/

Also IEVS:
Hyundai Kona Electric: EPA Range Breakdown (City/Highway)
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-epa-range-breakdown/

While we all know that the Hyundai Kona Electric, with its 64-kWh battery pack, goes the distance, what we didn’t know until now is how far can you expect it to go in various driving conditions (city, highway, combined).

Luckily, we’ve now got those numbers for you (via the internal database at fueleconomy.gov).

  • City range – 284.1 miles
    Highway range – 226.0 miles
    Combined range – 258 miles (voluntarily lowered from 263 miles)

As for the MPGe metrics, here’s your first look at those figures:

  • City MPGe – 132
    Highway MPGe – 108
    Combined MPGe – 120. . . .
 
Via IEVS, Tom Moloughney's (of BMW PEV fame) review:
Hyundai Kona Electric: Compelling EV That U.S. May Barely Get to Know
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-not-for-usa/

Lots of positive stuff, then:
. . . So if all of this is true then it can’t be a compliance car, right? Well, I’m not too sure about that. It’s true that the Kona Electric a really nice overall package. . . .

Now for the bad news. The 2019 Hyundai Kona EV will launch in California only, and at some point months later, become available in the other nine CARB ZEV states. (Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont). I was told by Hyundai representatives that there’s no guarantee they will offer the Kona EV outside of the ZEV states at any point, and that even if they do the dealers in those states likely won’t stock them. However, if a customer in a non-ZEV state wants one, they can special order it from a Hyundai dealer, but they’d need to do so without seeing or test driving it.

Also, I was able to squeeze some exclusive news for InsideEVs from Hyundai senior Manager of eco and performance powertrains, Jerome Gregeois. Gregeois told me that the Hyundai Kona Electrics sent to North America WILL NOT have active battery heating, unlike the cars going to European countries. Instead, they will only have thermal management with active battery cooling, but not heating. That’s a pretty significant sign to me that Hyundai isn’t serious about selling the Kona electric in the Northern states or Canada, where battery pre-conditioning in the winter months is very important.

So, there’s the initial launch in January 2019 in California only, followed at some unspecified point by the other CARB ZEV states, with no clear plan to expand sales beyond those states. With these distribution plans, Hyundai USA clearly isn’t expecting to get a lot of Kona Electrics from the mothership. Add to that the fact that Hyundai is eliminating active battery heating from the Kona Electric for North America, (to save money, I suppose) and I can’t help but get that compliance car feeling in my gut.

And that’s too bad. I like the Kona Electric. Correction, I really like the Kona Electric. So much so that I previously cancelled my Tesla Model 3 reservation and had intended on getting one once they became available in New Jersey. Going on the press drive had two purposes for me. First, of course, to report back here on my initial impressions and secondly, to get a pre-launch test drive and confirm my interest in buying one.

However, the apparent lack of availability, combined with the deletion of battery heating for the US market leaves me a little unsure if a Kona Electric will find its way onto our garage.

Compliance EV? We’ll let you decide.
The lack of battery heating for NA cars is a mistake, but one I expect they'll correct at some point down the road once they can produce enough cars. Still disappointing. I wonder if Kia will do the same with the Niro? It's bad enough that the latter lacks a heat pump, which isn't an issue for routine local use and commuting, but will be for range on road (ski) trips in states like California where temps rarely drop into the teens or below until you're at the ski area, and even then often only at night.
 
GRA said:
Via IEVS, Tom Moloughney's (of BMW PEV fame) review:
Hyundai Kona Electric: Compelling EV That U.S. May Barely Get to Know
https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-not-for-usa/

Lots of positive stuff, then:
. . . So if all of this is true then it can’t be a compliance car, right? Well, I’m not too sure about that. It’s true that the Kona Electric a really nice overall package. . . .

Now for the bad news. The 2019 Hyundai Kona EV will launch in California only, and at some point months later, become available in the other nine CARB ZEV states. (Connecticut, Maine, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Oregon, Rhode Island, and Vermont). I was told by Hyundai representatives that there’s no guarantee they will offer the Kona EV outside of the ZEV states at any point, and that even if they do the dealers in those states likely won’t stock them. However, if a customer in a non-ZEV state wants one, they can special order it from a Hyundai dealer, but they’d need to do so without seeing or test driving it.

Also, I was able to squeeze some exclusive news for InsideEVs from Hyundai senior Manager of eco and performance powertrains, Jerome Gregeois. Gregeois told me that the Hyundai Kona Electrics sent to North America WILL NOT have active battery heating, unlike the cars going to European countries. Instead, they will only have thermal management with active battery cooling, but not heating. That’s a pretty significant sign to me that Hyundai isn’t serious about selling the Kona electric in the Northern states or Canada, where battery pre-conditioning in the winter months is very important.

So, there’s the initial launch in January 2019 in California only, followed at some unspecified point by the other CARB ZEV states, with no clear plan to expand sales beyond those states. With these distribution plans, Hyundai USA clearly isn’t expecting to get a lot of Kona Electrics from the mothership. Add to that the fact that Hyundai is eliminating active battery heating from the Kona Electric for North America, (to save money, I suppose) and I can’t help but get that compliance car feeling in my gut.

And that’s too bad. I like the Kona Electric. Correction, I really like the Kona Electric. So much so that I previously cancelled my Tesla Model 3 reservation and had intended on getting one once they became available in New Jersey. Going on the press drive had two purposes for me. First, of course, to report back here on my initial impressions and secondly, to get a pre-launch test drive and confirm my interest in buying one.

However, the apparent lack of availability, combined with the deletion of battery heating for the US market leaves me a little unsure if a Kona Electric will find its way onto our garage.

Compliance EV? We’ll let you decide.
The lack of battery heating for NA cars is a mistake, but one I expect they'll correct at some point down the road once they can produce enough cars. Still disappointing. I wonder if Kia will do the same with the Niro? It's bad enough that the latter lacks a heat pump, which isn't an issue for routine local use and commuting, but will be for range on road (ski) trips in states like California where temps rarely drop into the teens or below until you're at the ski area, and even then often only at night.
Actually according to this on page 3

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1119348_2019-hyundai-kona-electric-first-drive-of-affordable-258-mile-crossover/page-3

Kona will NOT have a heat pump, and with the latest news

https://insideevs.com/hyundai-kona-electric-not-for-usa/

NO active heating is a game changer for me.

If ANY Canadian with a pre-order deposit can chime in as to any further news on this sad development please do so.
I will be approaching my dealer on this but so far I have received no info on ANYTHING other than I am in line.
 
According to this Hyundai Canada article, a heat pump will be standard equipment in Canadian Kona Electrics:

https://www.hyundaicanada.com/en/newsroom/vehicle-news/2019%20kona%20ev%20recalibrate%20eco%20cuv%20400km
 
It's good that the Canadian version will have a heat pump, although battery heating would seem to be of equal or greater importance in parts of the country away from the coasts, as winter temps will frequently be below the point at which resistive heating will be used in any case.

The lack of a heat pump is critical in U.S. states below the northern tier, and why on earth Hyundai wouldn't at least offer both as options here is baffling. Hopefully it's just media error, but it wouldn't hurt to contact Hyundai/Kia and make your feelings known, and I did (to Kia) as follows:
I live in the S. F. Bay Area, but am a cross-country skier. I've been driving Subarus for the past 30 years and have been v. satisfied with them, but want to go ZEV for my next car. Hwy range, especially in winter, is crucial for me to do so, and only having resistive heat when the temps are usually well above the teens will waste energy on heating that could be used for range with a heat pump. While active battery heating isn't as much of an issue for me, downhill skiers who can charge at resorts and those who live in colder parts of the country need it. Both these features should be available, if not standard, for North American customers.

My Subies have been AWD, as I hate putting chains on when I don't need them, and owing to the way California implements chain controls (usually skipping direct from R1 to R3, so having 2WD with snow tires is rarely allowed), there are many occasions when you have to put them on and remove them more than once in a trip. For anyone who lives at low level but drives up to the Sierra to ski, having AWD is a major convenience, even if it's not really needed for grip most of the time. Much as I and many outdoorsy types want to go ZEV, if the Niro is to capture a significant portion of the skiing crowd, it will need AWD.

Finally, while it's become rare to have spaces for them, those of us who take long trips to remote places, including a fair amount of driving on dirt roads, want a (preferably full-size) spare.
 
I believe the option is "winter mode" in the settings fro active battery heating for Kona.
So it should be easy to check out. I realize it's not something that I would use regularly , but I would prefer to have the option to travel north B.C. and Alberta and beyond .
What would be the production cost savings ($500)? vs the consequences to install a couple of 300W heating elements.
And yes the heat pump is essential .
 
GetOffYourGas said:
Just curious - any response from Kia?
Not yet. When I hit 'send message' there was a note that they had sent an auto-reply to my email noting they'd received it and would get back to me within 48 hours with an actual person replying, but I haven't gotten either. We'll see if they bother by say Monday, as I assume people won't be around to answer on the weekend.
 
If you scroll to the bottom of this page

https://mobile.hyundai.co.uk/new-cars/kona-electric

You'll find a link for a PDF spec sheet. The spec sheet explicitly mentions "battery heater", so it would appear that's standard equipment, at least in the UK model.
 
ElectricEddy said:
And yes the heat pump is essential .
Your opinion.

I owned a Prius Prime during a Colorado winter that comes with an advanced heat pump. The issue is that heat pump efficiency drops off quickly below 32F so from my POV it is not much better than resistance heating at the temperatures I want it running.

I can imagine it making a substantial difference in high humidity climates where cabin heating is used even at moderate temperatures to keep the glass fog free.
 
My somewhat more technically detailed review of the Kona Electric is here:

https://electricrevs.com/2018/10/16/hyundais-kona-ev-one-ups-the-chevy-bolt-ev-except/

It includes some technical description of the apparent cooling loop that can share heat from the motor and power electronics with the battery peak even when there is no dedicated electric battery pack heater.

My understanding of the cabin and battery heater situation is:

Canada, and at least some parts of Europe gets heat pump, US gets resistive heater

Canada is likely, in my opinion, to get the dedicated battery heater although this is not officially confirmed by Hyundai yet.

California will not get a dedicated battery heater but it’s possible that some colder northern regions like New York might get the battery heater. Again, still awaiting official confirmation.

These cabin and battery heater configurations are not customer options but are regional distribution configurations much like gasoline cars in different states get different regional emissions equipment configurations.
 
SageBrush said:
ElectricEddy said:
And yes the heat pump is essential .
Your opinion.

I owned a Prius Prime during a Colorado winter that comes with an advanced heat pump. The issue is that heat pump efficiency drops off quickly below 32F so from my POV it is not much better than resistance heating at the temperatures I want it running.

I can imagine it making a substantial difference in high humidity climates where cabin heating is used even at moderate temperatures to keep the glass fog free.
Considering ElectricEddy's local climate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanaimo#Climate I'd say a heat pump is pretty much an essential, or at least a very practical year-round option for him (or Californians like me). You, not so much, although you'd still benefit spring and fall.
 
JeffN said:
My somewhat more technically detailed review of the Kona Electric is here:

https://electricrevs.com/2018/10/16/hyundais-kona-ev-one-ups-the-chevy-bolt-ev-except/

It includes some technical description of the apparent cooling loop that can share heat from the motor and power electronics with the battery peak even when there is no dedicated electric battery pack heater.

My understanding of the cabin and battery heater situation is:

Canada, and at least some parts of Europe gets heat pump, US gets resistive heater

Canada is likely, in my opinion, to get the dedicated battery heater although this is not officially confirmed by Hyundai yet.

California will not get a dedicated battery heater but it’s possible that some colder northern regions like New York might get the battery heater. Again, still awaiting official confirmation.

These cabin and battery heater configurations are not customer options but are regional distribution configurations much like gasoline cars in different states get different regional emissions equipment configurations.
Thanks, nice review. I forget,, does the Bolt have a heat pump, or just a resistive heater? If the Kona details are confirmed, the lack of availability of a heat pump for U.S. cars, at least along the coasts, south and desert southwest where winters are mild, is idiotic. It's not needed (although it will still waste energy) for local use where the range is excessive, but for road trips it does matter, and these cars have both the range and charging speeds to be used for weekend trips. The battery heater will be needed/wanted in mountain areas and the northern tier states. Offer them both as options and be done with ti, or at least make the heat pump standard and the heater optional.
 
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