Tesla Model X

Early falcon doors probably will have issues, as the first buyers should consider themselves to be beta testers.

However, with the glitches worked out (and there's no reason to believe they won't be, in time) I'm inclined to believe that these doors will offer real advantages. Entry and exit should be easy and pleasant, including to/from the third row, and fussing with child seats should be less of a pain. In many cases, second row passengers should be able to walk right in and sit down, like on a train. So I applaud the innovation and hope Tesla can make these doors reliable and winter weather tolerant.

Also, it should still be possible to carry one kayak on the roof. You just won't have the use of one of the falcon doors.

finman100 said:

Hmmm, 200 mile EVs from non-Tesla entities? how's that going? and where, on longish trips, say, across the country, are you going to charge these mythical EVs? I thought so.

Better get in the Tesla line, cause they got all avenues covered.
Factory to make their own cells and packs: check.
Robust, fast, and reliable, as well as ever-expanding, network of SuperChargers: check.
Compelling EVs and affordability on the way: check.

NO WAY IN HELL non-Teslas have ANY of that!

Just sayin'.

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None of which is even a reality yet except for MAYBE the SC network but it lacks in MANY areas in the USA. Its one thing that I'm impressed by them that they did well. But to say "Robust (NO).. fast (yes, but with larger packs coming it will need to get over the 1.6c rate)... and reliable (there's problems and failures like any other vendor)... Compelling... that's VAPORWARE just like the MX is right now to res holders... dangling the carrot... :lol:

The Rav4 was the only one to do that but there are other 110mi+ EVs out there with CHAdeMO that you can go cross county without a hitch.

I am a skeptic for now, while I love the MS, SpaceX is bleeding $$$, so is Tesla, SolarCity is kicking ass but he needs to focus and learn some public speaking skills like the 5hr energy guy :roll:

Really? across the country 100 miles at a time? in a timely manner? (40kw is not fast)... and "other" 110 mile EVs? now THAT is all vaporware. I can just make up stuff too.

to each their own.

abasile said:

Early falcon doors probably will have issues, as the first buyers should consider themselves to be beta testers.

However, with the glitches worked out (and there's no reason to believe they won't be, in time) I'm inclined to believe that these doors will offer real advantages. Entry and exit should be easy and pleasant, including to/from the third row, and fussing with child seats should be less of a pain. In many cases, second row passengers should be able to walk right in and sit down, like on a train. So I applaud the innovation and hope Tesla can make these doors reliable and winter weather tolerant.

Also, it should still be possible to carry one kayak on the roof. You just won't have the use of one of the falcon doors.

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You're a lot more sanguine than I am that the issues will be solved, as well as the willingness of people who've paid $132k or more for a car to be beta testers, especially now that Tesla is moving beyond the early adopter demographic. As to carrying a single kayak, I've already made my feelings clear on carrying a kayak costing anyhwere from $1k upwards on a rack held on by suction cups, and of course anyone else I was going kayaking with would just have to drive their car so they can bring their own kayak along, which kind of defeats the energy efficiency and environmental advantages this car is supposed to provide.

GRA said:

abasile said:

Early falcon doors probably will have issues...

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You're a lot more sanguine than I am that the issues will be solved, as well as the willingness of people who've paid $132k or more for a car to be beta testers...

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It could have been worse.

Musk might have decided to pit his genius toward re-inventing the wheel, rather than just the door...

Much more significant to TSLA's future, IMO, is that from the reports on the Tesla forum (sounds like no X's delivered since the six last month, and still no firm delivery dates given) it is now looking like total X deliveries in 2015 may only be in the hundreds, rather than the thousands:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/150-Model-X-Ordering-Production-Delivery

The falcon wing doors are really a means to an end, as they are designed to attract attention, build the Tesla brand, and get more people to consider EVs. While I'd prefer that early buyers not have to be beta testers, that's realistically the way Tesla has been, and I remain quite impressed at their accomplishments. Hopefully they'll succeed in making the Model 3 simpler and less error prone out of the gate!

GRA, I sympathize with your kayak concerns. Personally, in addition to securing our large kayak to a roof rack, I have in the past used tie-downs and anchored it to the front and rear of the vehicle. (Now it's parked at an acquaintance's lake dock so we don't move it around.) To carry two kayaks on a Model X, I wonder if it might be possible to operate only the outer hinge of each falcon door and thus put two kayaks on the roof. Entry and exit would be less convenient, but still do-able, though parking right next to another vehicle or other obstacle would be a no-go.

For many, a better option may be to acquire a Model S or Model 3 sedan/hatchback with AWD, regular doors, higher miles/kWh efficiency, and more range. I'm impressed with the cargo capacity of the Model S, for instance. The Model X is attractive for its ability to seat seven full-size individuals or carry more gear, but for a great many families, the Model S is plenty large. For those not requiring AWD and thus a front motor, the "frunk" is surprisingly spacious. I'm keeping an eye on CPO (certified pre-owned) Model S prices and it's now possible to acquire something decent for close to $50K if one is patient and waits for the "right" listing. Or, for another ~$10K after incentives, one can acquire a base S-70 brand new.

abasile said:

The falcon wing doors are really a means to an end, as they are designed to attract attention, build the Tesla brand, and get more people to consider EVs. While I'd prefer that early buyers not have to be beta testers, that's realistically the way Tesla has been, and I remain quite impressed at their accomplishments. Hopefully they'll succeed in making the Model 3 simpler and less error prone out of the gate!

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The doors are definitely a means to an end, IMO the end primarily being to shout "I am NOT driving a $100k mini-van!" :lol:

abasile said:

GRA, I sympathize with your kayak concerns. Personally, in addition to securing our large kayak to a roof rack, I have in the past used tie-downs and anchored it to the front and rear of the vehicle. (Now it's parked at an acquaintance's lake dock so we don't move it around.) To carry two kayaks on a Model X, I wonder if it might be possible to operate only the outer hinge of each falcon door and thus put two kayaks on the roof. Entry and exit would be less convenient, but still do-able, though parking right next to another vehicle or other obstacle would be a no-go.

For many, a better option may be to acquire a Model S or Model 3 sedan/hatchback with AWD, regular doors, higher miles/kWh efficiency, and more range. I'm impressed with the cargo capacity of the Model S, for instance. The Model X is attractive for its ability to seat seven full-size individuals or carry more gear, but for a great many families, the Model S is plenty large. For those not requiring AWD and thus a front motor, the "frunk" is surprisingly spacious. I'm keeping an eye on CPO (certified pre-owned) Model S prices and it's now possible to acquire something decent for close to $50K if one is patient and waits for the "right" listing. Or, for another ~$10K after incentives, one can acquire a base S-70 brand new.

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The Model S unquestionably has more utility as anything other than a people-mover than the so far non-existent beyond the Founder's edition Model X, especially given the back-in only SCs at many sites. Quite frankly, between the doors, the seats and the limited towing range, I think the Model X is going to underwhelm a lot of potential owners. And now we have Elon saying that either the Model 3 or Model Y (presumably the AWD CUV version of the 3) will have the Falcon Wing doors. Will someone please knock some sense into him, and point out that you can't offer a mid-price, supposed-to-be-mass-market car with features that will boost its base price by several thousand $, which can't be deleted, and which many people don't want in any case.

Re kayaks, the steps you describe to carry more than 1 on the Model X roof may or may not be possible, but are inevitably a kludge that anyone spending that much money on a car shouldn't have to put up with. Personally, every time I've carried kayaks I've always used front/rear tiedowns as well as the rack; anything less would be nuts even with a rotomold kayak, let alone if I'm carrying a $4k carbon-fiber beauty up there (not mine, sadly).

Surprised nobody posted this yet.

Tesla's cheapest Model X is priced at $80,000:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/23/teslas-cheapest-model-x-is-priced-at-80-000/

Tesla Begins Taking Orders for “General Production” Model X Crossover SUV, Priced From $80,000
https://transportevolved.com/2015/11/23/tesla-begins-taking-orders-for-general-production-model-x-crossover-suv-priced-from-80000/

+ $1200 destination and doc fee

cwerdna said:

Surprised nobody posted this yet.

Tesla's cheapest Model X is priced at $80,000:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/23/teslas-cheapest-model-x-is-priced-at-80-000/

Tesla Begins Taking Orders for “General Production” Model X Crossover SUV, Priced From $80,000
https://transportevolved.com/2015/11/23/tesla-begins-taking-orders-for-general-production-model-x-crossover-suv-priced-from-80000/

+ $1200 destination and doc fee

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Not really news, that is exactly what they said the price would by ($5,000 more than the 70D Model S).
The news also just came out yesterday.

I suspect many are waiting to actually see the deliveries ramp up before getting excited.

cwerdna said:

Surprised nobody posted this yet.

Tesla's cheapest Model X is priced at $80,000:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/23/teslas-cheapest-model-x-is-priced-at-80-000/

Tesla Begins Taking Orders for “General Production” Model X Crossover SUV, Priced From $80,000
https://transportevolved.com/2015/11/23/tesla-begins-taking-orders-for-general-production-model-x-crossover-suv-priced-from-80000/

+ $1200 destination and doc fee

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not surprised. its not really news. even at the unrealistic "starting at $80,000" lead in, its still double what I am willing to pay.

cwerdna said:

Surprised nobody posted this yet.

Tesla's cheapest Model X is priced at $80,000:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/11/23/teslas-cheapest-model-x-is-priced-at-80-000/
....

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So, sounds like you may be able to buy A ~$80,000 X in ~2017.

...the cheaper 90D and 70D models to land mid- and late 2016.
While all Model Xs come with a standard five-seater config, six seats will cost $3,000 extra, while seven is a $4,000 charge. That fancy Autopilot feature will add $2,500 to that ever-increasing bill, while air suspensions (fitted as standard on the P90D and the 90D), will cost 70D buyers another $2,500. There will also be a $2,500 premium sound system option, subzero weather package ($1,000) and a $750 towing pack option. If you wanted everything, you could very easily top $100k for the privilege...

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Isn't 2017 the same year Tesla has promised to deliver a ~$30,000 BEV?

Wonder if the back seat in that BEV will also be a ~$4,000 option...

edatoakrun said:

...the cheaper 90D and 70D models to land mid- and late 2016.
While all Model Xs ....

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Isn't 2017 the same year Tesla has promised to deliver a ~$30,000 BEV?

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Well, from https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/639171519197777920, I read that has Model 3 production beginning around September 2017. And Elon claims it'll start at $35K. As I said many times, I doubt he'll hit that price before any tax credits and incentives (where applicable).

And, judging by Tesla's track record so far w/S and X, they'll deliver only very heavily/fully loaded most expensive vehicles first and production order will be in descending order of battery capacity (i.e. cheaper vehicles come later).

Holy crap, I've never read so much hate and vile AGAINST any EV from folks who claim to be EV advocates (well, not GRA so much, since hydrogen is the obvious future).

The sky isn't falling at Tesla. That's a fact.

The Model X is way behind. That's also a fact.

Model X is, not too surprisingly, not the same market, performance or price point vehicle for folks who own and or talk about Nissan LEAF cars.

Tesla will sell EVERY Model X that they make, I absolutely guarantee.

Model 3 will be on the schedule that has been laid out, mostly because of the issues with Model X. You will see a car in March 2016, and they will deliver at least one (like the Model X) by the end of 2017.

JasonA said:

Tesla needed to focus more on the 3 then the X. The only people "who really love the X" are Res holders and fan bois. That's it. The general public, wall street and everyone else (the automotive industry, etc,etc) pretty much has slammed the X already.

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Of course he is, Elon is betting Tesla's entire future on Model 3. Without Model 3, Tesla doesn't need a 5 billion gigafactory.

A $35K Tesla before credits is a bit of a pipe dream unless it's pack is very small and it has a single button on the dash and that's it. It will likely be a combo of price creep plus expensive add ons and long wait times for cars that are remotely affordable. Since history has proved this on other models the probability is high and one will need quite a bit of luck to get a car near this price until 2018 if even available. My guess is for $10K more you will get far more with a base P70D. Probably could lease a LEAF 2 or bolt before getting the model e delivered as promised Nissan should sell a bunch of bridge EVs. That's not hate it's more like realism.

what if Tesla's plan(s) change and making cars is secondary? See powerwall/ GigaFactory.

Other mfgs will have to fill the EV needs. Oh dear, that would be a shame if others ICE mfgs have to stop gassing us and actually COMPETE in the EV ring. <again, more sarcasm>

Pretty sure we still have choices for how we spend money. Too expensive? Look for something in a lower price range. I know I did and am as happy with my Leaf as I was with my very first car (VW Rabbit, and man, was it sweet to drive that and not have parents with me! Freedom!) sorry, had a flashback...

But Tesla has my eye for many other reasons besides high prices. Longer, REAL road trip range. Supercharger network. OMG, Autopilot! Let them work the not-so-free-capitalist system and let's see where they go in the next few years. If anyone has a problem with that...get out there, do it yourself even better. And don't be surprised if Elon says welcome, I knew this thing would work.

Interesting story RE real vs. advertised Tesla X prices.

Can you really pay that much for an X?

Seven Seats Are Now A $4,000 Option for Tesla Model X

...Ostensibly the Model X is priced before incentives from $81,200 for a 70D. Per its questionable price advertising custom on its online configurator however, Tesla assumes a massive $20,000 less than this.

A $61,000 figure is arrived at with five years’ estimated gas savings assumed at $9,000 which it handily lops off the actual MSRP as well as a $1,200 not-tallied-but-mandatory delivery fee, assumed $7,500 tax credit, and $2,500 California state rebate...

And true enough, Tesla already goes to great lengths to whittle down listed prices – though its actual practices are set up to quickly send real out-the-door costs back up.

Both its delivery schedule and pricing, despite saying “$61,000” for base, can easily run in to the six figures, with fully loaded P90D examples coming to as much as just over $150,000...

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http://www.hybridcars.com/seven-seats-are-now-a-4000-option-for-tesla-model-x/

If one is hung up on price, come back in 3 years. Well, 3 Tesla years is 5 or so actual years, ha, ha!

otherwise, yes, options add to the out the door price. why would anyone be surprised of this? Want the hamburger? Well, it cost more to get one with cheese. "Free" market, no? If no one is buying, then you adjust prices to gain market share. If EVERYONE wants one and you can't make enough, then you charge enough to continue doing business. Supply, meet demand.

I can recall many items i wanted that cost more than I wanted to pay at the time of their intro (High Def flatscreen LCD TVs for example). Then LED TVs came out and really got me interested. and they were cheaper. and better.

Enough analogies. Bottom line is actually the first line I wrote.

Cheers

finman100 said:

Then LED TVs came out and really got me interested. and they were cheaper. and better.

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Well, that's not true of (O)LEd TVs. Not the cheaper part (though they are way better).

evnow said:

finman100 said:

Then LED TVs came out and really got me interested. and they were cheaper. and better.

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Well, that's not true of (O)LEd TVs. Not the cheaper part (though they are way better).

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Yep, this “LED TV” bit is a bunch of confusing market that it seems Samsung started years ago since OLED/AMOLED TVs began to come out that were really thin, have incredible black levels but are also still incredibly expensive.

“LED TV” unfortunately refers to the lighting being changed to LED instead of fluorescent or CCFL. Non-OLED/non-AMOLED TVs are still LCD TVs but w/LED lighting (e.g. backlight or sidelight).

If we applied this “LED TV” “logic” back to non-LED-lit TVs, we should call them fluorescent TVs or CCFL TVs.

(Example of more background info: http://www.cnet.com/news/why-led-does-not-mean-a-better-picture/)