Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 27 EV miles, on sale later 2015

edatoakrun · May 26, 2015

First drive report below.

IMO, every PHEV should have a Battery charge mode, allowing the driver to selectively control SOC for city driving, or (more importantly for me) large ascents.

Drive modes. The 2016 Sonata PHEV has three operating modes:

•EV mode. EV mode, or all-electric battery charge depleting mode, can handle speeds up to approximately 75 mph (121 km/h). This is the default mode for the Sonata PHEV, and is recommended for city driving.

•Hybrid mode. In hybrid mode (charge sustaining mode), the Sonata PHEV operates much like its HEV sibling—one of the major exceptions being the lack of a Sport Mode, which is available on the Sonata Hybrid.

•Battery charge mode. A long press on the HEV toggle switch on the center console invokes battery charge mode, which uses engine power to run the traction motor as a generator to recharge the battery pack more rapidly.

In our relatively short test drive, we found this last feature to be very compelling and well implemented. A typical use case scenario would be starting out on a longer drive or commute in EV mode, and moving onto a high-speed highway some miles into the drive. The Sonata PHEV is perfectly capable of handling (legal) Interstate speeds on battery pack alone; however, such operation depletes the battery relatively quickly...

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/05/20150526-sonata.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Probably an even bigger win for Hyundai in the sales market:

Android Auto Review: The Smartphone Finally Finds Its Rightful Home in the Car

A future without slow, unintuitive in-dash navigation systems is on the horizon

May 26, 2015 8:00 a.m. ET

I am petrified when my dad is behind the wheel.

His car’s $1,500 in-dash navigation system is riddled with menus so complex and unintuitive they should require a pilot’s license. So instead of keeping his eyes on the road, he splits his time between fidgeting with the screen and fighting with the robotic woman’s voice emanating from the dashboard. (She usually wins.)

It gets worse. Lately, he has taken to driving around with his smartphone in his lap instead. Google Maps and Waze are easier and more up-to-date and accurate than his fancy system, he tells me. As if I didn’t know.

But this isn’t just about my dad. It’s about how a safer, better system is hitting the road for the 70% of drivers who use their smartphones’ maps and other features while driving, according to a new study by AT&T. It’s about how I wish they would all be able to get Android Auto in their cars.

Starting this week, the 2015 Hyundai Sonata will be the first car to include Google’s new in-car software. When you plug your Android smartphone into the car’s USB port, the vehicle’s center screen is taken over by an interface with your phone’s maps, music and other street-legal features.

Apple ’s CarPlay, hitting mainstream cars this year, does something similar for iPhone users. (I spent some time with it, but will write an in-depth review only after I can drive with it for a few days.)

After a week cruising around with Android Auto, I’m convinced this is the future of in-dash technology. Taking the software design out of the hands of car makers and putting it in the hands of phone makers should have happened long ago.

Google’s mobile talents—maps, speech recognition, Google Now—are great behind the wheel...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/android-auto-review-the-smartphone-finally-finds-its-rightful-home-in-the-car-1432641601" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TomT · May 26, 2015

Well, unlike Nissan, at least Hyundai understands ongoing updates...

"Looking more like a computer company than a car company, Hyundai ships Android Auto on 2015 Sonatas and unlocks it for owners of the earlier Sonatas with a software update.
Says the article:
To enable Android Auto, existing Hyundai Sonata owners outfitted with the Navigation feature can download an update to a USB drive, plug it into the car's USB port, and rewrite the software installed in the factory on the head-unit. When the smartphone is plugged into the head-unit with a USB cable, the user is prompted to download Android Auto along with mobile apps. Android Auto requires Android 5.0 or above."

GRA · May 26, 2015

LeftieBiker said:
GRA said:

LeftieBiker said:

The PIP can easily get 10+ miles "continuous" AER, with no particular "care" except not literally flooring it. I'm not sure why people don't just note that its actual AER of about 15 miles Summer, 10 miles Winter (with heat off), isn't enough, instead of misrepresenting it...

Click to expand...

I say it because that doesn't seem to be possible for the average driver driving as they typically do, as opposed to EV geeks who get off on seeing how far they can stretch the AER. I've been able to 'easily' exceed the EPA highway MPG on every car I've owned, but that doesn't mean that the typical driver does so.

Click to expand...

Our PIP is driven my my housemate, a woman who hates/fears EVs (She won't even drive my Leaf unless I'm with her, and doesn't like it when she does) and is not a Geek of any sort - she's more a technophobe. She drives a little slowly (55-60MPH) on the highway, but often accelerates faster than I do. She easily gets the ranges I quoted above. She does tend to leave the A/C off, but that doesn't make a big difference in 95% of our driving. I'm willing to bet that anyone who drives a Prius and gets at least 50MPG (that's most of the eco-minded Prius drivers, not just the hypermilers) can get at least 12 miles EV range in a PIP in mild weather.

That just makes the point that the average Prius owner isn't the average driver (which we already knew). After all, they've already opted for a car that excels in just one area of driving, while falling short in every other driving quality. If the mainstream driver transitions to PHEVs, they aren't going to drive like the typical Prius owner will, and will require more AER as well as a car that doesn't require a light foot on the accelerator to achieve that AER.

dhanson865 · May 26, 2015

This car is optimized for maximum range on combined fuel. I'd be happy if the gas tank were smaller and the maximum range was only 3x the (AER) EV miles so long as the total range is over 200 miles.

with the current 2016 config it is 24 miles EV out of 605 total range for a ratio of 1 EV mile for every 25 miles of hybrid range.

I'd rather see a larger battery and a smaller gas tank to get more EV miles and lose some overall range. Say 50 miles AER and gas tank enough to do the other 150 miles in hybrid mode.

I can stop for gas anywhere but if this thing doesn't have a supercharger or chademo port my options for charging on a trip will be too slow to bother.

I had to drive my used Leaf over the mountains coming from NC to TN and the TN portion was a wasteland of nothing faster than L2 charging. Sure in a PHEV you just gas up and keep going but that sort of thinking taken to the extreme of 25 to 1 range just promotes people not even figuring out how to charge the car and drive it on gas all the time.

That's how you end up finding a used PHEV on autotrader with 3% EV miles and 97% hybrid miles driven after 36,000 miles. People just don't bother to charge if it is too slow and they have a big gas tank.

DanCar · May 26, 2015

I created a little spreadsheet with features that are important to me considering the Sonata PHEV, Volt, and Leaf. Summary: Lots of nice features but want something with more cargo space. I'm most looking forward to the Outlander PHEV because of size.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KK5OOq9aCb-cAbCfJlIX6bKxkYdF2vBn5ZjWtyrYK0I/edit#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Code:

		Hyundai plug-in	Volt 2016	Leaf 2016
Interior space	legroom (F+R=T)	45.5 + 35.6 = 81.1	42.1 + 34.7 = 76.8	41.2 + 37.3 = 78.5
	cargo space cu ft	9.9	10.6	23.6
	Hip room	56.1	51.3	50
				
EV Range	miles	22	50	100
Gas Range		600	400	0
				
Android Auto		Y	N	N
Apple Carplay		Y	N	N
				
Adaptive Cruise Control		y	y	n
Stop start cruise control		y	n	n
Lane departure warning		y	y	n
Panoramic Sunroof		y	n	n

I'm curious to see what the batteries look like in the trunk of the PHEV if anyone comes across one.

GRA · May 28, 2015

dhanson865 said:
This car is optimized for maximum range on combined fuel. I'd be happy if the gas tank were smaller and the maximum range was only 3x the (AER) EV miles so long as the total range is over 200 miles.

with the current 2016 config it is 24 miles EV out of 605 total range for a ratio of 1 EV mile for every 25 miles of hybrid range.

I'd rather see a larger battery and a smaller gas tank to get more EV miles and lose some overall range. Say 50 miles AER and gas tank enough to do the other 150 miles in hybrid mode.

I can stop for gas anywhere but if this thing doesn't have a supercharger or chademo port my options for charging on a trip will be too slow to bother.

I had to drive my used Leaf over the mountains coming from NC to TN and the TN portion was a wasteland of nothing faster than L2 charging. Sure in a PHEV you just gas up and keep going but that sort of thinking taken to the extreme of 25 to 1 range just promotes people not even figuring out how to charge the car and drive it on gas all the time.

That's how you end up finding a used PHEV on autotrader with 3% EV miles and 97% hybrid miles driven after 36,000 miles. People just don't bother to charge if it is too slow and they have a big gas tank.

I agree that the road range is excessive, although I don't know that they need to increase the AER. I think it would be more important to drop the total range to say 400 miles, but remove the encroachment into the cargo area by the battery. As long as people are paying a significant premium for a PHEV and the AER is enough to seem worth charging (a Prius' isn't away from home, for most people), they will do so. The problem you mention strikes me as more typical of company cars, where the employees are compensated for gas but not for electricity. That's an easy fix.

Valdemar · May 29, 2015

C&D article.

evnow · May 29, 2015

DanCar said:
I created a little spreadsheet with features that are important to me considering the Sonata PHEV, Volt, and Leaf. Summary: Lots of nice features but want something with more cargo space. I'm most looking forward to the Outlander PHEV because of size.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KK5OOq9aCb-cAbCfJlIX6bKxkYdF2vBn5ZjWtyrYK0I/edit#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...I'm curious to see what the batteries look like in the trunk of the PHEV if anyone comes across one.

Isn't Sonata PHEV the direct competitor of Ford Fusion PHEV ?

DanCar · May 29, 2015

evnow said:
DanCar said:

I created a little spreadsheet with features that are important to me considering the Sonata PHEV, Volt, and Leaf. Summary: Lots of nice features but want something with more cargo space. I'm most looking forward to the Outlander PHEV because of size.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1KK5OOq9aCb-cAbCfJlIX6bKxkYdF2vBn5ZjWtyrYK0I/edit#gid=0" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
...I'm curious to see what the batteries look like in the trunk of the PHEV if anyone comes across one.

Click to expand...

Isn't Sonata PHEV the direct competitor of Ford Fusion PHEV ?

Yes, but already know I don't like the Fusion PHEV because of lack of trunk space. Turns on the Sonata has the same issue. Geez, you'd think they would learn something and put the batteries underneath or in the hump. A shame because I like all the features of the Sonata, like stop start cruise control.

GRA · May 30, 2015

Brad Berman has collected a bunch of quotes from various sites' first drive impressions, at plugincars.com: http://www.plugincars.com/survey-first-drive-reports-plug-sonata-130758.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

gsleaf · Jun 1, 2015

On paper the Sonata looks great. How does Hyundai do in terms of safety? I'd probably get a Volt but it's just too small. The Sonata is a really nice size.

GRA · Oct 7, 2015

Via ievs:

Hyundai Sonata PHEV Gets Up To 27 Miles Of Electric Range, According To EPA

http://insideevs.com/hyundai-sonata-phev-gets-27-miles-electric-range-according-epa/

In terms of maximum electric range, the Hyundai Sonata Plug-In Hybrid is quite the over-achiever.

When Hyundai first announced the Sonata PHEV, the automaker listed its electric range at up to 22 miles. A few months later, Hyundai revised that figure to up to 24 miles. Now, with official EPA testing complete, the maximum electric range, from its 9.8 kWh LG Chem battery pack with a lifetime warranty, is listed at 27 miles. . . .

Its composite MPG figures are as follows:

57 city
60 highway
59 combined

Additionally, the Sonata PHEV has an impressive total range of 600 miles, a figure that beats all other plug-in hybrids available in the U.S. for 2016. . . .

Similar article plus video at ABG:

Hyundai Sonata PHEV will go 27 miles on electric power
99 MPGe Figure Is Also Better Than Forecast

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/10/07/hyundai-sonata-phev-27-miles-electric-range/

I've updated the thread title to reflect the higher EPA range.

evnow · Oct 7, 2015

GRA said:
The primary need to make PHEVs (and BEVs) mainstream is to get the prices down, and the way to do that at the moment is with the smallest battery that large numbers of people find useful.

Marginal price per extra kWh until 16 kWh is almost zero (if not -ve). It makes sense to put in 16 kWh battery because of this.

GRA · Oct 7, 2015

evnow said:
GRA said:

The primary need to make PHEVs (and BEVs) mainstream is to get the prices down, and the way to do that at the moment is with the smallest battery that large numbers of people find useful.

Click to expand...

Marginal price per extra kWh until 16 kWh is almost zero (if not -ve). It makes sense to put in 16 kWh battery because of this.

Only if said battery doesn't seriously cramp cargo/passenger space, or limit the car in other ways. I'm really interested to see how Hyundai prices this car. At $32k it'd be okay, but if they can get it down to say $29k or less, that would be quite a deal.

evnow · Oct 7, 2015

GRA said:
Only if said battery doesn't seriously cramp cargo/passenger space, or limit the car in other ways.

Right - so it is not about the cheapest battery.

GRA · Oct 8, 2015

evnow said:
GRA said:

Only if said battery doesn't seriously cramp cargo/passenger space, or limit the car in other ways.

Click to expand...

Right - so it is not about the cheapest battery.

Uh huh, I would formulate it as "the cheapest battery that doesn't limit cargo/pax space or seriously reduce CS mpg while providing 20-30 miles AER EPA, which can be filled in 8 hours or less of L1, which will last at least a decade if not the life of the car, and which is in a car with a base MSRP under $30k." People who want/need more AER can buy a Volt. More AER is good, but to get the cars mainstream the unsubsidized price has to come down, first to $30k, and then to $25K and ultimately $20k. 20 miles AER should cover at least 50% of trips, and include all urban and freeway stop-and-go miles for almost everyone. Add L1 or better charging at both ends, and you're talking about 75-78% of trips.

In essence, the Sonata is the half-battery 2nd Gen. Volt that I wish GM had offered in addition to the full battery one.

GRA · Nov 13, 2015

Via GCC:

2016 Hyundai Sonata Plug-In Hybrid coming to market with EPA-estimated 27-mile electric range; starts at $34,600

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2015/11/20151113-sonataphev.html

Which IMO is too expensive by at least a couple of grand, with the high end Limited model starting at $38,600. The Fusion Energi SE Limited (base model) lists for $33,900, and the Titanium for $35,730. Hyundai needs to offer 5 passengers like the Fusion plus more for less, and I have my doubts that 8 miles of AER plus some more trunk space is enough to justify the Sonata's higher price over the Fusion, although I haven't compared what's offered standard with each trim package.

GRA · Jul 19, 2018

Been quite a while since there was any news about these, and sales have been blah. Via GCC:

Hyundai lowers entry price, bumps all-electric range on new 2018 Sonata Plug-In Hybrid

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/07/20180719-hyundai.html

The new PHEV model adopts the same distinctive design of the recently released Sonata gasoline and Hybrid models while delivering 28 miles (45 km) of all-electric range (vs. 27 miles in the outgoing model). The starting price for the 2018 Sonata Hybrid Plug-In is $33,250, a $1,350 reduction from the 2017 model.

The price of Sonata Plug-in Hybrid Limited model increases by $250, but now comes with all these new features:

Automatic Emergency Braking with pedestrian detection
LED Headlights with Dynamic Bending Light
Lane Keep Assist
Driver Attention Alert
Heated steering wheel
Wireless charging pad for Qi-compatible devices
Second row USB port

The vehicle qualifies for a $4,919 Federal Tax Credit along with other state-level incentives. The 2018 Sonata Plug-In Hybrid is available now at Hyundai dealerships.

The 2018 Sonata Plug-in Hybrid’s efficient 2.0L GDI 4-cylinder Atkinson Cycle engine and the 50 kW (67 HP) electric motor are mated to a six-speed automatic transmission for a more familiar and natural operation feel. . . .

The 9.8 kWh lithium-ion polymer battery system is more than five times larger than the Sonata Hybrid’s battery and can be charged using a 240V Level 2 charging station in two hours and 42 minutes. Sonata Plug-in Hybrid’s battery can also be charged overnight using the Level 1 charger equipped with the vehicle. . . .

The Sonata Plug-In Hybrid’s interior has also been updated with a revised center stack area and instrument cluster that provides an improved sense of dimension while the steering wheel now has a sportier leather-wrapped three-spoke design.

Hyundai Sonata PHEV - 27 EV miles, on sale later 2015

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