supra410
Well-known member
Buying a car can be a fun experience. Many people enjoy the picking their vehicle, test driving and deciding what trim package works best for them. When the negotiation process starts is when the butterflys seem to kick into overdrive.
Don't let the dealership bully you into taking major decisions lightly. At the end of the day, you are responsible for paying for the car, not them.
When Leasing a car be sure to read the fine print! Leases tend to have many variables mainly credit worthyness, but getting as much as possible under msrp is the main goal...
When buying a vehicle. Don't focus so much on payment. Worry about actual purchase price. Car dealers are so focused on what payment are you looking for, so they can sneak in all the extra crap you really don't need.
You should seriously go to your credit union or bank and figure out what rate you qualify for. There you can get a baseline of what your payment can be.
Dealerships focus solely on your payment desire so they can manipulate numbers in their favor.
**Never ever pay full retail for a new car. Depending on supply & demand typically you can get them at invoice which is about $1000 less than msrp. In many cases even less than that**
Trade in is another area you need to maximize your return on. Don't go solely on nada or kbb tade in value. The numbers are market driven and normally wholesale is a bit less than what kbb and nada post. Your best bet is to sell on craigslist, as I know it's a pain it can be done with ease, even if you have a loan that needs to be satified. If you do decide to trade in your vehicle. Negotiate your trade in separate from the purchase as many dealerships try to bundle the whole deal. This way you get a much clearer picture of what they are stealing your car for.
The car buying process is a number game, and the buyer is rarely on the winning side.
Example:
You want a 2013 Leaf with an msrp of $29,900
You negotiate the car 1k off msrp.
28,900 minus 8k for your gas guzzling Sentra trade in.
$20,900 @ 1.9% for 60 months come out to about $365 a month.
Now you told the "trustworthy" car salesman you want to be under $450 a month.
He's thinking "sweet! thats about $85 a month I have to play with."
So you go back n fourth. He's running into that glass booth with all the dry erase marks on the window. Talking to the sales manager trying to get you a payment you like. What you don't know is he's really trying to figure out all the add-ons he can squeeze out of your desired payment.
So your sales man comes back and tells you "great news! we got you under your payment!" What he doesn't tell you is that you not only bought a new leaf, but you bought Gap insurance, the top of the line extended warranty, maintenance agreement, and a luster sealer.
28900 + 500 gap + 2500 ext warr +1200 maint contract + 500 sealer over $4700 in extras
33,600 minus 8k trade
25,600 @1.9% 60 months = $447.69 Just a hair under what you were comfortable with.
Now some of you are saying "I need those extras" while i somewhat agree you definately dont need them all. for starters.
Gap insurance. Now if you owe more than what the car is worth. Like no down or negative trade equity then I'd say yes Gap is needed.
$500 is alot of money to add on to a depreciating purchase. Also most insurance providers offer gap at a fraction of the cost from the dealer. You only pay a small portion as you use it. So say you had the car only two years and decide to dump it. You have only payed $100 and not the full $500 that you never get back.
Ext warranty. If you are scared of uncertainty then maybe you should consider it. I highly reccomend you study the existing factory warranty before even thinking of adding one of these. The cost is so high and 95% of purchasers never get to use it for a major repair. Secondly, I'm not buying a Yugo. Im buying a Nissan. Just because it's an ev. Don't let them scare you into a warranty. Also, there are other avenues for obtaining a warranty than the dealership at a fraction of the cost. If you dedcide to take the stealerships warranty, don't accept the first offer. Be as anti warranty as possible, as they have many options cheaper than the original offer. They prey on the fact that you aren't a mechanic and have no clue what repairs cost. Your most expensive repairs are engine and trans. and many factory warranties cover these for many years and miles. They always quote potential repairs much higher than they actually are. When you decline the warranty, the sales manager basically tells you how crappy the car is and how much of a fool you are for not adding thousands to your car payoff. Another crappy thing is most have about a $200 deductable, so not only did you pay thousands for extra security, you are also out a couple extra hundred bucks just to use the darn thing. Nonsense!
Also maintenance plan is a huge waste. Most new cars especially the leaf require little maintenace. Pay for it as it comes up. Don't finance it and pay even more interest than you should.
Luster sealant. Come on folks. How hard is it to spend a few hours every other month with a can of turtle wax?
The only thing these extras do are add to your payoff and get people in trouble when they are upsidedown in the event of a wreck or needing to flush the car due to job loss or they simply don't like the car.
Negotiating the price is half the battle, going into the finance dept. is round 2. Don't let them make it seem like you are making a huge mistake by not buying these items. Another trick up their sleave is saying your interest rate will be a little cheaper if you buy these items. Total bs! If they say your rate is 1.9 with the extras, but 3.9 without. You already have the 1.9. A toyota dealer did this exact thing to me and even though my paper read I was paying a higher interest rate from me declining all the extra crap. Toyota financial later sent me an ammendment to the contract stating the dealerships error in rate input. (sneaky bastards)
Another whammy is doc fee. $199 or less i can live with. some stealerships charge as much as $499 pay really close attention and most dealerships won't disclose that until you are signing papers.
They say that fee is non negotiable which is fine, but find ways to trim that cost during negotiations..
I realize a lease a bit different, but bottom line read, read, read every cost involved.
These guys are trained (math magicians) they know what numbers work in their favor.
Some folks say, buy at the end of the month when it's more a pushing inventory out the door than maximizing proffit. Does this work? I don't know. I do this and have been happy with my cars, but not really sure if this has a bearing on negotiations.
In closing, many dealerships add on a bunch of crap like pin striping, tint, clear bumper guards etc.
While many of these items are great they tend to have over a 100% markup. Tell them you don't want that stuff and 90% of the time they will remove the charge or discount it closer to a reasonable amount.
I'm not saying all dealerships operate this way, but the majority do. Buy smart and keep the buyers remorse bug at bay.
At the end of the day they need to make money, but try not to let them make it all from you.
Don't let the dealership bully you into taking major decisions lightly. At the end of the day, you are responsible for paying for the car, not them.
When Leasing a car be sure to read the fine print! Leases tend to have many variables mainly credit worthyness, but getting as much as possible under msrp is the main goal...
When buying a vehicle. Don't focus so much on payment. Worry about actual purchase price. Car dealers are so focused on what payment are you looking for, so they can sneak in all the extra crap you really don't need.
You should seriously go to your credit union or bank and figure out what rate you qualify for. There you can get a baseline of what your payment can be.
Dealerships focus solely on your payment desire so they can manipulate numbers in their favor.
**Never ever pay full retail for a new car. Depending on supply & demand typically you can get them at invoice which is about $1000 less than msrp. In many cases even less than that**
Trade in is another area you need to maximize your return on. Don't go solely on nada or kbb tade in value. The numbers are market driven and normally wholesale is a bit less than what kbb and nada post. Your best bet is to sell on craigslist, as I know it's a pain it can be done with ease, even if you have a loan that needs to be satified. If you do decide to trade in your vehicle. Negotiate your trade in separate from the purchase as many dealerships try to bundle the whole deal. This way you get a much clearer picture of what they are stealing your car for.
The car buying process is a number game, and the buyer is rarely on the winning side.
Example:
You want a 2013 Leaf with an msrp of $29,900
You negotiate the car 1k off msrp.
28,900 minus 8k for your gas guzzling Sentra trade in.
$20,900 @ 1.9% for 60 months come out to about $365 a month.
Now you told the "trustworthy" car salesman you want to be under $450 a month.
He's thinking "sweet! thats about $85 a month I have to play with."
So you go back n fourth. He's running into that glass booth with all the dry erase marks on the window. Talking to the sales manager trying to get you a payment you like. What you don't know is he's really trying to figure out all the add-ons he can squeeze out of your desired payment.
So your sales man comes back and tells you "great news! we got you under your payment!" What he doesn't tell you is that you not only bought a new leaf, but you bought Gap insurance, the top of the line extended warranty, maintenance agreement, and a luster sealer.
28900 + 500 gap + 2500 ext warr +1200 maint contract + 500 sealer over $4700 in extras
33,600 minus 8k trade
25,600 @1.9% 60 months = $447.69 Just a hair under what you were comfortable with.
Now some of you are saying "I need those extras" while i somewhat agree you definately dont need them all. for starters.
Gap insurance. Now if you owe more than what the car is worth. Like no down or negative trade equity then I'd say yes Gap is needed.
$500 is alot of money to add on to a depreciating purchase. Also most insurance providers offer gap at a fraction of the cost from the dealer. You only pay a small portion as you use it. So say you had the car only two years and decide to dump it. You have only payed $100 and not the full $500 that you never get back.
Ext warranty. If you are scared of uncertainty then maybe you should consider it. I highly reccomend you study the existing factory warranty before even thinking of adding one of these. The cost is so high and 95% of purchasers never get to use it for a major repair. Secondly, I'm not buying a Yugo. Im buying a Nissan. Just because it's an ev. Don't let them scare you into a warranty. Also, there are other avenues for obtaining a warranty than the dealership at a fraction of the cost. If you dedcide to take the stealerships warranty, don't accept the first offer. Be as anti warranty as possible, as they have many options cheaper than the original offer. They prey on the fact that you aren't a mechanic and have no clue what repairs cost. Your most expensive repairs are engine and trans. and many factory warranties cover these for many years and miles. They always quote potential repairs much higher than they actually are. When you decline the warranty, the sales manager basically tells you how crappy the car is and how much of a fool you are for not adding thousands to your car payoff. Another crappy thing is most have about a $200 deductable, so not only did you pay thousands for extra security, you are also out a couple extra hundred bucks just to use the darn thing. Nonsense!
Also maintenance plan is a huge waste. Most new cars especially the leaf require little maintenace. Pay for it as it comes up. Don't finance it and pay even more interest than you should.
Luster sealant. Come on folks. How hard is it to spend a few hours every other month with a can of turtle wax?
The only thing these extras do are add to your payoff and get people in trouble when they are upsidedown in the event of a wreck or needing to flush the car due to job loss or they simply don't like the car.
Negotiating the price is half the battle, going into the finance dept. is round 2. Don't let them make it seem like you are making a huge mistake by not buying these items. Another trick up their sleave is saying your interest rate will be a little cheaper if you buy these items. Total bs! If they say your rate is 1.9 with the extras, but 3.9 without. You already have the 1.9. A toyota dealer did this exact thing to me and even though my paper read I was paying a higher interest rate from me declining all the extra crap. Toyota financial later sent me an ammendment to the contract stating the dealerships error in rate input. (sneaky bastards)
Another whammy is doc fee. $199 or less i can live with. some stealerships charge as much as $499 pay really close attention and most dealerships won't disclose that until you are signing papers.
They say that fee is non negotiable which is fine, but find ways to trim that cost during negotiations..
I realize a lease a bit different, but bottom line read, read, read every cost involved.
These guys are trained (math magicians) they know what numbers work in their favor.
Some folks say, buy at the end of the month when it's more a pushing inventory out the door than maximizing proffit. Does this work? I don't know. I do this and have been happy with my cars, but not really sure if this has a bearing on negotiations.
In closing, many dealerships add on a bunch of crap like pin striping, tint, clear bumper guards etc.
While many of these items are great they tend to have over a 100% markup. Tell them you don't want that stuff and 90% of the time they will remove the charge or discount it closer to a reasonable amount.
I'm not saying all dealerships operate this way, but the majority do. Buy smart and keep the buyers remorse bug at bay.
At the end of the day they need to make money, but try not to let them make it all from you.
