2 out of 2 quick-chargers down, 75-mile tow home.

[Turnover]

Camas, WA has a broken Blink L2 that has been rewired so it charges despite the screen being blank. OptConnect L2's also can work if the screen is otherwise down. It would help if all chargers failed into some sort of a default charging mode unless there was some dangerous condition involved. Not being able to get a charge can be dangerous in itself.

 

[Phoenix]

Much as I dislike the gas station model, I think it's the only one that will work in the long term. Other thoughts? Is there a better way?

My thought is that the majority of charging will be done at home or workplaces. The only "need" for additional charging would be for long distances which then can be serviced by very high speed (DCQC) chargers strategically placed to allow coverage. Hmm... strangely this seems to be what Tesla is building out eh?

My reasoning is that for daily travel, any stopping is inconvenient and frankly most folks probably don't even want to be bothered with plugging in that often. As range isn't infinite long trips would require stops to re-fuel, these then need to be relatively fast - certainly not any longer than the stop would normally be for other things (i.e. highway rest ares with bathrooms and semi-quick food supplies).

To make all this work, range has to increase to more like 150-200 miles for "daily driving only" and in the 300+ mile range for long distance drivers (reasonable to travel 75mph for 4-5 hours between stops when pushing distance so that would be 300-375 miles).

Clearly the "distance driver" could service as a daily driver, but likely there could be a market for daily driver only range. Given the stats, one could have 150-200 mile range limit and satisfy 95%+ of drivers even with our natural desire for a buffer for the daily driver role (I don't know exact numbers, but I find it hard to imagine more than a small percentage of folks travel that far daily!)

So this layout would likely obsolete the 'randomly placed' chargers I've seen around here. No need for the one at the local restaurants, only larger banks of them on the highway rest stops (placed where they would get higher utilization in general and in existing rest areas). Easy to scale up these 'rest area' stations as needs grow too. Oh - and a cost per use/kwh would make the most sense in my opinion - enough to make it profitable for owners to desire to build out more.

Mostly agree with the above, but an EV owner who rents and had no workplace charging will still need those random corner charging stations.

 

[Slow1]

Mostly agree with the above, but an EV owner who rents and had no workplace charging will still need those random corner charging stations.

That may be true now - but really? You think that enough renters would be willing to go charge their car while waiting on a daily (or near daily) basis? Sure, some of us more enthusiastic about EVs are willing to do so, but I can't imagine it becoming the 'norm' for the general public. Thus I remain convinced the most likely long term trend will be towards home based charging for local use and 'quick' chargers on major traveling routes for road trips.

I'm not sure exactly how we'll get there but perhaps when that time comes (i.e. renters have significant EV ownership and/or expectations of the same) those renting may have to come up with a solution. Plugs/stations at apartment complexes and/or those renting homes will have to provide demanded plugs in order to remain competitive in the market.

In any case I have a hard time imaging a situation where folks charge multiple times each day is accepted by the 'general public.'

 

[johnrhansen]

I think AVs subscription based model is the one that makes the most business sense. I hate it, but It addresses the fact that most of the costs of operating a charging network, such as maintenance and capital recovery are fixed expenses, the only variable is electricity, and the cost of that is trivial in comparison.

Actually, I think a subscription model is the worst model because of the way costs are distributed across users and how the typical subscription does nothing to maximize utilization of infrastructure. Companies love subscription models because inevitably they end up with users who pay the subscription, but never use it. Just look at AOL - they have a ton of people paying for it still even though they don't use it. quote]

I wasn't saying the subscription rate was best for me. I hate it. I'm saying that it's best for the station owners, and it will be the way it happens if electric car owners tolerate it.

 

[johnrhansen]

I don't know about the gas station model, but a peeve I have with the siting of most charging locations is that it's in a spot that all you can do is twiddle your thumbs or read something while your car charges. What a missed business opportunity! The most profitable way would be to install a nice, slow 20 KW charger, and have an expensive gift shop or restaurant right there, or even better a casino! Then your charge might cost 200 bucks!

 

[Levenkay]

I don't know about the gas station model, but a peeve I have with the siting of most charging locations is that it's in a spot that all you can do is twiddle your thumbs or read something while your car charges. What a missed business opportunity! The most profitable way would be to install a nice, slow 20 KW charger, and have an expensive gift shop or restaurant right there, or even better a casino! Then your charge might cost 200 bucks!

Yeah, and with a restroom, please. The Blink stations at Fife fit your description pretty well.

 

[DaveEV]

I wasn't saying the subscription rate was best for me. I hate it. I'm saying that it's best for the station owners, and it will be the way it happens if electric car owners tolerate it.

How is it good for station owners if the only people who sign up are the ones who use the stations to make it economical? Either they'll have to raise the subscription rates, or create multiple tiers.

 

[RegGuheert]

How is it good for station owners if the only people who sign up are the ones who use the stations to make it economical? Either they'll have to raise the subscription rates, or create multiple tiers.

+1

EvGo tried to offer only subscriptions when they came here. That didn't last long since people like me simply didn't sign up for their service. After a rather short while they caved and offered plans that had no monthly fee that you can use to charge for a higher per-use fee. With that change, they have now received some revenue from me.

 

[johnrhansen]

Well av is still using that system up hrre. It must be working for them
.